Riley's World

I'll add a pence.

You're right that the standard is actually higher in teh New Testament than in the Old Testament. We are to lay down ou lives for the brethren and the 1st century saints in Jerusalem gave so that no one was in need.

On the other hand, you're in no position to command anyone to do anything. You gotta trust in the Lord, bro, to move people's hearts. And keep preaching it with love and gentleness and respect.

I agree with Dan, though it frustrates me to no end to say it (nothing against you Dan). How can we call people to something biblical and good while not offending them? I've been going through this with my life group guys, isn't obedience demanded of us, and aren't grace and faith dead without it? But overall, it's true, we must build hearts.

Paul Abbot said in the Great Commission Workbook, "No man can live by another's convictions. When the pressure is on, he will 'throw in the towel' demonstrating that he was simply following what others had told him, not what he himself valued or believed to be true."

Great post, Riley. Another verse came to mind...

Matt. 5:19 "Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

I know what you mean, and I share Dustin's frustration sometimes (and I'm certain that others have had that frustration for me) when I'm being disobedient (and sometimes belligerent and pugnacious), but I'm slow to accept truth until God convicts me.

Another verse:

1 Thess 2:11-12 "For you know that we dealt with each of you as a father deals with his own children, encouraging, comforting and urging you to live lives worthy of God, who calls you into his kingdom and glory."

When I think of a patient Father, I think of a man who sees childish things in his son/daughter, and desires to see Godly, adult habits replace those childish sins. But that often takes a long time and years of careful, patient instruction.

Since we live in a time where few children hear anything of tithing at home, and what they DO hear is usually the basic "This is how to get extra credit with God" version of why we should tithe. We have to remember that with the people we're leading, that many of God's commandments weren't taught to them growing up, and their learning curve is sometimes way ahead, and sometimes way behind us.

That doesn't call for any compromise or watering-down of the truth, but it DOES call for patience and love, and increased prayer that God might be moving mightily within us all, growing us up into the Godly men and women He desires us to become.

Whether it's tithing, struggles with anger, lust, taking oaths (ooo, thats one not talked about much, but badly abused), prayer, fasting, being judgemental of others, or any other pet sin that we want to keep close to our heart, it's still sin, and needs to be dealt with on a case by case basis with most people, and bathed in prayer.

That is, unless someone reads the Bible and just says straight-out "I'm not gonna do this, God can't make me..." Then punch 'em in the throat.

Just kidding... :D Have a nice day!

I won't attempt to dissect your post, mainly because I don't think I am as smart as you :P. I just had a thought though... maybe God intentionally left the new testament vague so that teachers would not feel liberty to specifically command how tithing should look. If you teach generosity, it leaves more room for the Spirit to convict someone to do just that. To not just follow the command in the OT to tithe 10%, and thus be right with God, but to BE GENEROUS, according to the faith that you have. I think it opens it up more to give all that you can, and for some in the NT, that meant giving everything they owned.

Ok, so I just started tithing, so I don't know how valid my thoughts are, as im a tithing noob, but here goes

I think a lot of times people get hung up on the 10% thing, and we get proud of ourselves when we give 10%, but we totally forget that we are still keeping 90%. Theres always a deeper heart to every law/rule/command. For me what tithing simply comes down to is trust, and I guess by my actions I haven't trusted God with my money until just a few weeks ago.

I enjoy food a lot, I end up spending a decent amount of money on food, how much more should i be concerned on spending money on "food" for the church body?

I had an additional thought too, if you don't mind.

I was wondering, are you taking into account the Ezekiel project giving and giving for Katrina and other stuff. Overall giving actually may be up?

And just to go along with Wendy and TJ, the 10% thing really is thrown out in the New Testament because we're supposed to give it all. You know, "love one another as I have loved you" (John 13:34).

To reply to you Dan, giving may be up, but our standard of measure is the Tithe. (At least until the Elders tell me otherwise.) The point of Hurricane Relief or Z37 is to raise additional funds beyond what is regularly given. And by and large, though there are a few exceptions, most who give to Z37 or Hurricane Relief, actually faithfully give to the tithe (not necessarily meaning it's a full Tithe), so in the sense that more people are actually giving is not implied by the dollar figure.

Things like Z37 or Hurrican Relief and be catalysts, but it's faithful, regular giving that is more important. I would and I'm sure the Elders would agree, that we'd like to see saints give first to the Tithe, and then if their means allow, give to the other things.

Thanks to all who commented. I think part of my point was missed so I'm working on clarifying it. I'll be generating a new post, so stay posted. I appreciate the thoughts, insight and comments. Thanks for sharing! :)
-mtr

Michael,

Thanks for writing about this. I don't think we talk about tithing enough. I think that in my desire to be sensitive to where the Holy Spirit is working, and to not bring a lot of obligations into a new believer's life, I hold off too long before talking about this topic.

I say that because every time I talk to someone about tithing, and they start doing it, so much blessing starts pouring out on their life that I kick myself for not telling them this would happen earlier. Without exception, tithing is a blessing to the giver; it's a purely good thing for those we know to hear about tithing.

So, thanks for writing.

Oh, and I actually believe Abraham's example of tithing (Gen 14) is one of the strongest supports for New Testament tithing. Not only was that before the Law, Abraham, the father of Israel, tithed to an archetype of Christ, Melchizedek. So, now that the law has been fulfilled, we revert to the same example -- tithing to Christ.

ooo, great point Tony! (about Abraham)

Hi Michael,

I know what you're saying about hurricane vs. ezekiel vs. regular giving. Just pointing out that people perhaps are being even more generous from their finite resources and that perhaps that's a reason to be thankful.